VIDEO TRANSCRIPTION
Howie:
Hey, good afternoon everybody, or good morning, depending on where you’re at. It’s Howie Scott from Crisis Consultant Group here with Steve. And we have a very interesting topic today I believe. One that I think we spend a lot of time on when we’re doing our beginner class. And it’s titled; The Five Basic Rights– When Playing Fair Isn’t Fair. So just real quick for anybody who might be new, I’m Howie Scott, like I said, I spent the majority of my career as a law enforcement officer out here on the East Coast about 30 miles outside of Washington DC. During that time, I spent the majority of time on our full-time SWAT team, but I did have early on in my career, background and working in corrections, and finished up my career at the academy dealing with recruits and incoming officers. So that’s my background. And I took four days off between my 31-year career and working for Crisis Consultant Group.
Steve:
Right on. I’m Steve Naglosky. I also work for Crisis Consultant Group, I teach the Calm Every Storm portion. So verbal de-escalation, physical intervention. My background for 17 years of my professional career were working in residential settings with juvenile males, 12 to 17, all court-ordered in. And from there, I’m also a wrestling coach. I’m a retired MMA practitioner, and I’m really excited about today.
Howie:
Right now, Steve, thanks. I was just typing in the chat there, letting everybody know we appreciate them being here. So yeah, we talked about the five basic rights and what do they really mean. So when we mentioned that, what are five things that should always be afforded to you, and the other individual that you’re dealing with or individuals? So just go over those real quickly. First, we have the right to personal space. And then there’s the right to, my favorite, dignity and respect, and the right to being treated fairly and the right to personal space. And then, of course, we follow that up with the right to choice. And we’re going to go ahead and kind of cover each one of those. And as the title says itself, when that’s not being afforded to you, or when it’s not fair. And we know when we encounter people in crisis, that it’s not a fair situation already. If I just alluded to another one of the things that we teach is the ERLs, emotional response levels. When we’ve encountered people in crisis, we know they’re not at their baseline, right? There is some elevation in their attitude. Or it wouldn’t be a crisis, right? We’d be able to have a normal conversation.
So we’re going to talk about this first one here for a couple of minutes. And we’re talking about the right to personal safety. I’ll give you my thoughts. And then I’ll skip on over to Steve and see what he thinks also, what the right to personal safety means. So the right to personal safety for me means I’m pre-evaluating the situation before I go in there, I’m looking at what we call situational safety. Not awareness, because sometimes this awareness makes you aware, oh, yeah, that could be dangerous or there, but there’s no action or there’s no plan for follow up if it does become dangerous. So I start to observe prior to where I’m going and looking for potential threats, many people that I don’t know congregating in areas, people that might be agitated. And once again, if you’re with us last week, it’s a little bit harder to tell folks when they’re wearing masks, right? So you have to be even more vigilant on other signs that might be given off or other things that might be potentially dangerous to you.
So my personal safety, I’m the best one to keep myself safe. I’m not dependent on security guard, I’m not dependent on police, I’m not dependent on any other person that might have the authority of taking a position if something goes out of control. I owe it to myself to keep myself safe, which more importantly, I have to have in my mindset, why is it important for me to keep safe? That’s what really gets the ball rolling? Why do I need to keep myself safe? For me, I need to get home to my family. My family needs me. So that’s kind of how I look at the right to personal safety. Then, after Steve is done, we can maybe talk about why or what we do when that right is given up.
Steve:
Yeah, I totally agree. If I’m going into a new neighborhood, an area that I’m not familiar with, I’m not going to just punch it in my phone and follow the directions there. I like to review maps when I’m coming into a new area, a new neighborhood. I want to know a couple of different ways that I can exit the neighborhood, I want to have a plan going in and I’m always taking notes if I’m returning to an area where I know that there’s a high risk. I look at the way that cars are parked, the people that I see out and about. And for a lot of us with our jobs, we know that there are some inherent dangers to where we’re going, or maybe the client base we’re working with. So it’s that we’re prepared. And just like you said, our ultimate goal is that all of us are returning home safely, right? Because, like we talk in our classes, we need our staff to be able to come back and be healthy and proficient. Not just today, but tomorrow and the next day. So the more prep that you can do, the more prepared you are, it’s like the old adage, failing to plan is planning to fail. And so it’s taking that time and prepping to be ready.
Howie:
Great point. And so if we take that, you know, one step further, and we start to look at our workplace, right? A lot of times I think people can be lulled to sleep, maybe become a little lackadaisical of their work in their approach to take to it. So if we have people who are meeting with them, where there could be a potential crisis, are we taking that observation of the room prior to going in? If it’s our own office, have we moved objects that could be potential, improvised weapons that could hurt us, you know, three holes, if anybody punches paper anymore, right, the hole punches, you know, five to seven pounds and could do a lot of damage. But if we have to have somebody where the conversation might be escalated, have we prepped the room? Or do we just, hey, nothing is going to happen? I hate hearing on the news where it’s like, we never thought anything like that would happen here, right? It can happen anywhere. And we have to have that mindset.
So I think the right to personal safety is a mindset game. But what’s your plan when you’re not afforded to that, right? Do we have an exit strategy? You should not only have a primary exit strategy but what’s a secondary? If we can potentially make it known to others that we are in need of help or assistance or backup, how do we communicate that? The worst time to come up with a plan is when you’re in the middle of something, right? So I think the other thing I’m going to touch on probably on each and every one of these is when we give up that right voluntarily, we could have personal safety achieved, but because someone says something to us, now we start to involve pride and ego. And that’s going to be a continuing factor with the remainder of these and including this one, that pride and ego are two of the things that I think and I know you agree with me, Steve, that drive us in giving up these personal rights. But that said, why don’t we go ahead and move to the second one which is the right to be treated with dignity and respect. Go ahead Steve.
Steve:
Thank you, I love dignity and respect. And this is something that I drive home every class, every day, repeatedly. And when I was supervising employees, to me, this is the hallmark of de-escalation. If we can treat everyone with dignity and respect when those rights aren’t being afforded to us, and as you just touched on pride and ego come into play. I really think it’s imperative that we remind ourselves why we’re in the field, why we chose to be where we are. We’re dealing with people in crisis. And we look at what our definition of crisis is, it’s somebody’s ability to cope is exceeded. It’s a very simple definition. But we’re dealing with folks that aren’t able to make clear, rational decisions. And they’re going to say things that are hurtful, they’re going to try to draw us in, we’re seeing power struggles, we’re seeing people trying to push the emotions that they’re feeling on to us and we need to maintain that professionalism throughout. And for me, that’s self-talk. That’s reminding myself that I made the decision to be here, I made the decision to be in this role.
If I can treat everyone with dignity and respect, even when that’s not being afforded to me, when someone’s trying to draw you in, but I continue to maintain that professionalism, and I work towards them demonstrating that I understand the emotion that they’re sharing and that we’re working collectively, and I’m here to assist. I’m not there to control the situation, I’m there to influence the situation. I want to share ideas that may help them find a resolution. So when I believe if we can treat everyone with dignity and respect, when it’s not being afforded to us, that is one of the greatest tools of de-escalation there are.
Howie:
Yeah, I totally agree with you. Dignity and respect, just think if the world did that on a day to day basis to everybody they came in contact with, treat them with dignity and respect. And you can, I’m sure everybody can think of examples when they haven’t been treated with dignity and respect. But once again, like you were talking about that self-talk, right, and then I also while you were talking, I was thinking, you know, yeah, a lot of times we afford people that we don’t even know dignity and respect, but we don’t use it in our same home. Right? The emotional connection we have with people in our home, sometimes they know how to push our buttons and we don’t treat them with dignity respect.
So I would implore people to challenge themselves if that is an issue to treat their family members with dignity and respect, and then that makes it easier, even easier to treat people that you come in contact within your work or out and about. It really is a game-changer and a solver as to how to solve a lot of the world’s problems on how we treat each other on a day to day basis. So that’s huge, one of my favorites for sure, dignity and respect. And it’s just such a great starting point. I think also that we need to set the bar high and we know where that level is. Now I got to give credit to my wife for that, because she’s always like, set the bar high. Don’t compare yourself to people that are not as good as you, right? Set the bar high, try to move forward. That’s how you learn. But I think on that issue of dignity and respect, we have to set the bar high, I’m not going to be baited. Like I said, ego, pride, someone says something, they challenge you, you know, and all of a sudden, guess what? The respect goes out of the window. Oh, yeah. You said that about me, you know, it’s so easy to identify with. So once again, we got to remind ourselves about pride and ego.
Steve:
I mean, that’s the point that I always share. I never match a yell with a yell. Yeah, never match a yell with a yell. So I’ve got someone there. They’re calling me x, y, and z, right? They’re trying to draw me in. Alright, let me make sure I’m hearing your right. And sometimes I‘ll even start talking softer because that will encourage the person to bring their cadence, tone and volume down. It’s been a helpful tool for myself.
Howie:
Yeah. And I think anybody who’s had to go through virtual school has been tested with that. You know, keep remaining calm. And that’s a great point, Steve, something that I have to tell myself over and over again is when you go in third or fourth grade math that you need for the second time in your life, that you need your income because you know the answer, and they don’t, right? The third time, you’re starting to get, your voice starts to elevate, you have to come back down and put yourself in that space where they might be. And that could be the same thing with people in crisis, right? A lot of times, we work so fast to get to the solution that we forget about the person and where they currently are. And that in itself is a lack of dignity and respect for that person in a crisis they are in.
Steve:
Howie, I just want to point out real quick. Monica said don’t bring the storm to the storm. That’s pretty proud to see that. That’s awesome.
Howie:
Yeah, right. I love it. Way to go Monica. That’s super. I think last week, I said be the calm, not the storm, right? Two storms collide, it only makes one big hurricane. So great stuff, Monica. Okay, the right to be treated fair.
Steve:
Yeah. So for myself, I look at this working within residential and in treatment, we need to be consistent with our clients. And different clients bring in different personality traits. And there’s going to be clients that we click with. We need to have the same patience and consistency with all clients, whether we’ve got that relationship and rapport and we’ve worked with the client for six months, or this is a new kid that’s coming in and is trying to establish their place and the pecking order, and what are they presenting? Because that may not be the real individual, they may be posturing. But consistency, we need to be fair and patient, and professional with everyone.
Howie:
Yeah, absolutely. Steven, and while you were talking there, I was collecting my thoughts. And I was going on the fact that a lot of times now, things that I’ve noticed that people are afraid to confront people with the truth or fact, right? And they walk around it, which really can distort. And it’s not really treating people fair, right. They deserve to be told the truth and the fact.
One of the guys I listen to, Rick Warren, he came out with a statement that stuck with me, he’s like, people need to hear the truth but truth without tact is just mean. So we can tell people the truth, but we can also tell them the truth including dignity and respect. And I keep saying, our own self-awareness and our observations on our pride and ego and how we’re containing them, once again, will not bait us into getting at a higher escalated level when someone is not treated as fair or it’s not fair. You know, how come this person gets to talk this way and so we have to keep that that self-awareness or self-talk, like you were talking about earlier, I think that’s just one of the important aspects. Because a lot of times, you hear about self-talk, and people discourage it because they’re focusing on negative self-talk. That shouldn’t happen. If you want to win, you want to be a winner, you talk yourself into winning, you don’t talk yourself into why you lost, right? So I think that’s an important point also about fair treatment. The right to personal space.
Steve:
So how often have you seen when people are entering into a confrontation, we get closer and closer and closer, and we keep closing that space? And it’s, I need you to understand, just listen, listen, right? We can share the same information and be aware of that personal space. And I always like to say, if you get on somebody’s bubble, you’re probably going to get popped.
Howie:
Absolutely, Steven. And I think we have plenty of examples of that. And one that reminds me of an example of that, there was an incident where there was a juvenile that was put in a room and the person that was approaching him, told him that if he walked in that room, he was going to pop them, right? And the supervisor thought he had a good relationship with him, and continue to address the issue and thought he can come in. And when he walked in, he got popped, right? So that’s one of those times when you’re like, Oh, no, I got this, I got this, I know it, and you’re not really listening to the message that is being delivered, right? And those things can happen. But personal space to me, is one of those things that I’ve seen and done, unfortunately in the past, where I have given up personal space, just based on what people are saying. And we often talk about what is a safe distance. And most people say it’s at arm’s length away. And then I got to ask, well, whose arm are you using? My short arm, or a guy who’s six foot seven, right? So we quickly identify that arm’s length away is not good personal space with someone who is in crisis or is escalated, we need to keep sure that we keep that personal space.
Well, also along with personal space, we need to scan the body too like we were talking about last week, where are the potential threats coming from? It’s nice to make that eye contact, but the eyes really aren’t going to hurt us, right? We need to see what’s in their hands, maybe around their waistband, and other indicators that are given off by this person that they’re not at their baseline, they are in crisis, and they do have the potential to hurt us. So I think with personal space like I said, I’ve seen it given up time and time again, simply because of words that are being said, right?
Steve:
I think specifically words. When people get sucked in and it doesn’t even have to be engaged in the power struggle. I think it can be a person’s just so passionate to help. And we’re trying to drive that message home, whatever that message is that we’re trying to share with the client. And it’s human nature to get closer, and oftentimes, you’ll see the parental finger or exaggerated hand gestures coming out, and if we’re mindful of that personal space, and so myself, I’m not a close talker. I’m uncomfortable when people get too close, and they’re talking to me, I just assume that everyone’s bubble is a little bit bigger than mine.
Howie:
It’s pretty common, I think, with us as far as when we go out, and we’re teaching, and we see people coming to us and approach us, even the people we’re coming to see, that we have that personal space. And we certainly don’t invade anybody’s eye. More commonly, I see people invading what is our personal space, you know, because we probably have a perimeter of about four to six feet that we’re comfortable with. And once people encroach upon that we either, you know, our hands come out, hey, alright, good, you know, but it’s a defense mechanism, right? That’s natural, hey, good to see you, put the hands down or whatever. And then when we go out and we’re eating in a restaurant or something like that. I mean, we were exhibiting, I mean pre COVID conditions, prior to COVID. Six feet apart with someone I don’t know, it makes me feel perfectly comfortable, right? So if I can increase that distance, I certainly will.
But, you know, with personal space, you know, once again, it does become a pride and ego thing, that’s the only reason you would give it up. Well, let me take that back. That’s one of the reasons and I wanted to touch on the fact that you talked about the caregiver, the helper, sometimes, unknowingly wants to get close. And I think that’s okay, once we deem that it’s not an area that’s going to put us in danger. When you feel comfortable, you can close the distance, but at least take the time to observe and see what’s going on. And whether or not your own personal decision is that I can shorten the distance between the two of us.
Steve:
I fully agree.
Howie:
Right on. So getting back down. I know this is one of Steve big topics he always talks about in his classes, the right to choice. Why is the choice so important, Steve?
Steve:
Because it promotes ownership. If I’m having a conversation with someone, and they’re in crisis, and we can collectively come up with a choice together and a solution together. If the client sees it as their choice, it’s much more profound than anything I can come up with. Right? Because it promotes ownership.
Howie:
So you’re saying it’s okay to give people the opportunity to make choices.
Steve:
I want people to make choices,
Howie:
Even though they’re not the authority?
Steve:
Absolutely, because we’re collectively working together, we want a peaceful outcome. If we can avoid going hands-on, that’s what we’re shooting for. So yeah, every time. Look at our prison system, outside of the death penalty, and life imprisonment, what’s the next biggest consequence you have in prison?
Howie:
That would be solitary confinement,
Steve:
Where all choices removed, right? And so I mean– Nice job Trish. Right on. Yeah. So anytime we can promote choice. And a lot of times when I’m working with juveniles, I use what I call perceived choice. I’m going to give them multiple options, that all direct them to the outcome that I need, right? Because I’ve got a program I’ve got a run, we need that outcome. But if I can give someone multiple choices that direct them that way, that still promotes that ownership throughout. They choose one of those options, they own it as their own because they got to make that decision. They’re much more likely to follow along with programming.
Howie:
So if you’re in a group home, and I’m in your role now and I come up against a young man, I go, if you don’t clean your room, you’re not going get TV tonight. Is that a choice?
Steve:
It is, but I see it more as a threat. So I like to avoid the ‘you’ statements. And I like to go with ‘we.’ We need to get this done so that we can watch TV tonight. Or we can do this fun rack activity, or we want to make sure, so now I’ll bring in the ‘you’, that you’re able to advance in the level system, that you are getting those home visits, that you’re earning something. But I want it to be less punitive and more cooperative, where we’re working towards a common goal. And I’ve always told my clients, the barometer for my success is their success. So my goal is to work with them so that they find success within their homes, their community, and then they can return there and stay on their own.
Howie:
Yeah, so I think, you know, what you‘re saying is, we’re going to try to avoid when letting people have the right to choose, if you don’t do this, then that is going to happen. And I think, you know, based on my, my previous profession, we ran into that with law enforcement quite a bit, there are a lot of if you don’t do this, then that’s going to happen. If you don’t turn around, you’re going to, whatever that might be. And that’s some of the correction we’ve had the opportunity to at least introduce into the law enforcement agency we’ve worked with about freedom of choice, buy-in, that you’re not a bad person, maybe you made a bad decision but this is what we need to do.
And sometimes I think, you know, places we’ve been in prior to the class, they discounted the power that is in the freedom of choice, right? I think you nailed it with the prison system, and how that, yes, you’re incarcerated but there are still choices you get to make on a daily basis within being incarcerated. You get to decide when you’re going to shower, when you’re going to, you know, play cards, what meals or snacks or who you’re going to hang out with in the day room, those things aren’t taken away from you, so that is choice.
So even as a prison system, we realize that taking away choice to the point of solitary, that is a harsh punishment because we don’t invoke that on people in the prison system until they’ve either violated multiple rules and assaulted staff, they’ve assaulted other inmates, whatever it may be, but that’s almost the last place we want to put somebody in solitary because we take away all choice.
Steve:
Yeah, right.
Howie:
So Steve, we got a few minutes here, but I want to wrap up, get your final thoughts on the five steps, why you’re passionate about them, and how you think it really helps promote the curriculum and being able to solve crisis and people in crisis?
Steve:
I love it because it’s pretty simplistic. But if we can remind ourselves of these five steps when we’re going into a crisis situation or a potential crisis situation, it helps protect us. And I look at these five steps, they’re huge tools in de-escalation, dignity and respect, which I absolutely love. Personal space, that I’m not matching a yell with a yell, I’m consistent. I’m fair with everyone. I’m keeping everybody safe. When you can assure all of those points with your client, it takes away a lot of the fear that is oftentimes driving crisis. And I think we forget about that sometimes. So that uncertainty can prompt people to go deeper into crisis or to escalate on the ERLs and when we can meet these basic rights that is a huge tool in assisting in the de-escalation.
Howie:
Right on. So real quick, Steve, I’m going to give you another quiz here, right? And I’m going to hold you to one-word answers if you can, and we’re going go down those five rights because I want to see you what you what you come up with it. So, rights to personal safety?
Steve:
Absolute.
Howie:
Okay. Right to dignity and respect?
Steve:
Can I change my first answer?
Howie:
Yes. Go right ahead.
Steve:
So personal safety is prep.
Howie:
Prep? Okay. Dignity and respect?
Steve: Absolute professionalism. It’s tough to keep it one word.
Howie:
Okay. I know it is. But my point of this whole thing was, I want to show people how easy these five steps are to employ in your daily life. So right to fair treatment?
Steve:
Daily.
Howie:
Daily. Right on.
Steve:
Consistently,
Howie:
And the right to personal space?
Steve:
Self-aware
Howie:
Nice, nice. And the right to choose?
Steve:
Everybody.
Howie:
Good, good.
Steve:
Everybody is got to have that right.
Howie:
When you get a replay of this web webinar, I want you to go back, I want you to listen to the whole thing. But I want you to listen to Steve’s five answers because we’re running out of time, we’ll go over them. But I want you to see how easy it is to get these five steps and treat each individual you come up in contact with, how you can use these five safeties because every one of those reps you get is a live rep. And the more live reps you have under your belt, the more you’re going to go to that when you come into someone with the crisis.
I just want to thank Tracy for being on here and answering questions and putting out a poll. I want to thank each and every person that was on here today. I really, really loved the input and the questions and the statements that you put in a chat. Steve and I just look forward to this each week. Christine, we did notice your suggestion for a topic, and we definitely will address that here in the future, and hope everybody has a good and safe rest of their day and weekend.
Steve:
Thanks, everybody.